snagged from zeldajean

[thedarksiren2]

"the best dear abby letter ever:"

Pregnant teen booted by jealous mom
Published in Suburban Chicago Newspapers 10/16/04

Dear Abby: I am a mother of two. I recently learned that my 16-year-old daughter, "Rene," is pregnant. When she told me who the father is, I discovered she had been having an affair with my live-in boyfriend, "Leo." It was devastating. I am engaged to marry Leo, and I still love him.

I made Rene move out. I know this seems harsh because she is pregnant, but I feel I can have a good relationship with Leo only if Rene is not around. I don't mean to choose him over her, but Rene is my daughter, and she should have known better.

What do you think I should do? I don't want to disown her. Also, I want to raise Rene's baby as my own, and this infuriates her. Who is wrong? Please give me your insight. -- Confused In Canada

Dear Confused: Please reorganize your priorities. Your duty is to protect your children. Leo is an adult. Your daughter is only 16. Leo has far more experience. Your fiance is a predator who may have pursued you in order to get close to your daughter. You say you have two children. Is the other child a daughter too?

It's time to show your fiance the door and call the police. Rene should stay with you until she's able to complete her education and care for herself and her baby. And Leo should help to financially support the child until it is an adult.



Dear Abby....

THANK YOU FOR MAKING SENSE!!!

WHAT in the hell is wrong with this woman?!!! She kicked her child out over a lover? WTHF???

The thing is, this is such a typical thing - well, the part about choosing the lover over the "other" woman or so it seems to me. I have seen women time and again blame the other woman and keep the man. Granted, this case is just fucking ludicrous, but overall...why? why do women do this?

When I found out my ex had cheated on me, guess who got the blunt end of the stick first? Not the women who slept with him, although they were eventually booted out of my life as well. That's an old story now though...

The point is, why keep the person who is cheating on you? Why bother? They don't care, or they just wouldn't do it! And they will do it, again and again. Why? Because you enable them to do so each time you take them back. You give them your trust, which they could obviously give a flying rat's-arse about, as they have show SOOO many times before.

grr.

I'm sorry, but the blatant stupidity in this world is really getting me down these days.

At this moment, I &heart; Ms. Abby.

As for the nimrod-mother in this instance, I can think of about a dozen Hannibal Thoughts (TM) which are all better than anything she even deserves. She just disgusts me...truly.

I am not a mother, but the moment I become one, the child will always, always come first and foremost.

:::flails angrily:::

Comments

[kittypoocaca.livejournal.com]

wow..that is some bullshit..I can hardly believe that is a real letter..

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

that was my thought at first too.
yayzoo krispies!!!

[theswede.livejournal.com]

Not related, really (pun intended), but I'm really happy I know you.

*hugs* you!

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

aww...*gigglz*

(((HUGZ!)))

the opera director reminds me of you...I'll have to tell you about him. Not that I know a lot, but both his mannerisms and accent make me miss ya even more than I already do!

[bigjohnsinging.livejournal.com]

wow! that woman is nuts. first off to choose her boyfriend over her daughter is ludicrous.

and... when an adult has sex with a minor it is rape. it doesn't matter if she consents, she's a minor and he's the adult.

as dear abby said, he is a predator and if her second child is a girl he'll rape her one day as well.

i hope she or the daughter call the police but neither of them seem to be too bright.

so sad

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

totally sad.

[roses-rejoice.livejournal.com]

I agree with you re the dear abby letter. The thing is though, a lot of women didn't really want to be moms in the first place and get into really unhealthy competition thangs with their teenage daughters. This is one reason I am very happy that my mom was relatively old (late 30's) when she had me. She had had a pretty interesting life and was very ready to settle down and be a mom, and also when I began to hit my teens the age difference was such that I didn't feel like we were in any sense competing for some spotlight with clothes or weight or anything else.

Setting aside the issue that the person in this post is a mom and the fact that the "other woman" is a minor daughter, the reason women blame other women for stealing "their" man is (a) they love the guy and don't want to admit he has a wandering eye, a lack of control, poly orientation or whatever else might be causing him to have more than one woman in his life; and (b) in some cases the "other woman" behaves in such an obnoxious, rude, insulting or downright stupid manner that she truly MAKES herself an object of hatred. When two women get into a competition over a guy they tend to proceed without much concern for the other's feelings. When I have found myself in this situation I have tended to be concerned to the extent that the "other woman" was actually nice to me, or friendly, or something else admirable. If she is a complete jerk to me, as unfortunately is often the case, I must confess I really do not care how she feels.

Of course this does not let the guy "off the hook" because it takes two, but if you are getting some benefit from still being with the guy in question then it's a lot easier to hate someone who you are NOT getting any benefit from and don't have to have around every day (obviously if the woman is your good friend the analysis changes but part of being a "good friend" is not pulling these tricks).

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

if the other woman is acting like a jerk, agreed...they deserve as much crap, but certainly not all of it. As you said, it takes two.

Hmm...I have to get back to you on this when my computer is working again. I am at the library and need to get to class now. More later though...~8)

[roses-rejoice.livejournal.com]

no prob...one thing i have noticed is that the guy is usually much more willing to be apologetic and "make it up to you"...and why shouldn't he be? he's going to get something out of it, if you forgive him. but the woman gets nothing, usually, out of any sort of apology - it's just an acknowledgment that she is the "loser". so women don't apologize to each other.

i see relationships of all types as primarily driven by economic gain and "who gets the benefit" - i don't mean just sex or money although i'm sure those come into it. it would also include things like supporting self-esteem and just having fun spending time together. i think we all overlook stuff we don't like about people we love, because there are other parts of them that we love. and as weird as it may seem to have someone overlook some type of "infidelity" because society teaches that that's ultimate caca, i think that is actually very easy for some people to get past. it is all very situational though - for myself i am a lot more interested in the surrounding circumstances and why/how someone did what they did (like, did they think about it first, is it someone they love or loved), then in what exactly they did.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

I suppose that my viewpoint in this is based on several examples of having been cheated on, many of which I have forgiven to some extent (fully in a couple cases) but I did not remain in a relationship with a single one of the cheaters.

Also, I guess I don't always think about the other woman knowing. In a couple of the cases I went through (three all together) the "other" woman was not aware the guy was involved with me. How can I be mad at them for something they knew nothing about?

In the one case where the women did know (my ex cheated on me with several women, two of whom I was best friends with until I found out) the two women I was friends with were immediately cast out of my life, and the third, whom I only knew in passing, avoided any sort of run-ins with me.

Still, I wasn't nearly as angry at her as I was at Chris. And had it been one time, maybe I would have been less angry. More than anything, I was crushed, completely devastated, to be exact.

I guess I am not a good person to discuss this topic with, considering my inability to remain objective. Then again, some people whom I am incredibly close to cheated on each other and have managed to stay together decades later.

I'll never understand motives and reasoning the way that the persons participating do. I guess I just figure if you're going to tag a situation as being a "relationship," you make a commitment, a promise, and value the other human being enough to be loyal, faithful, trusting and real. If you want to go to another venue for pleasure, you don't remain in the relationship. It voids it, imo. It's complete disregard for the other person's feelings and completely selfish. I do not support selfishness in this light. Hell, I even gave Chris the option of leaving a couple times, to open the relationship if he wanted. He told me he didn't want to. And he didn't...he had his cake and was eating it too.

meh...soapy-boxes. Sorry. I think I make my point, no matter how subjective it might be.

[roses-rejoice.livejournal.com]

Your point is based on your experiences, and that's fine. I think I feel the way I do because I've seen so many instances of people who don't go to others for "pleasure" but because there's a significant emotional attachment to more than one person, or some kind of a growth/change process going on where two or more people are important in a person's life in different ways and for different things. Although every important friendship doesn't involve sex, that's usually the aspect that gets focused on in our society. I've seen many relationships where one partner was unable to accept that the other partner had a strong bond to a third party and just assumed sex was, or would, go on, whether that was the case or not.

without going into details I did stay in a relationship (my first, I was very young) with someone who was technically "unfaithful" to me (with someone he had been very much in love with and engaged to before I met him), and it was a very good relationship for a number of years and kind of relaxed my views about the whole subject. i'm also poly, probably from birth, although I consider myself largely asexual in that most of my poly-ness manifests as emotional rather than physical behavior, and was raised by parents who tended to be sensible about most things but hysterical about sex. so kind of downplaying the whole "fidelity" business in my mind and hanging out with people who are similarly relaxed about that particular form of commitment has worked well for me, emotionally. i don't think it works that well for everybody but i do think society at large needs to recognize that "commitment" can be expressed many different ways, and "fidelity" is one way, not the only way and not the way that everybody wants or needs to have it expressed.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

I agree that commitment comes in many forms, and that some of the most rewarding relationships do not involve sex. These are the people whom I call my closest friends, and yes, I have had a few lovers who've been threatened by them. I make it very clear from the get-go, however, that they mean the world to me, and I am not going to stop spending time with them because I have started spending time with said-lover.

As for lovers/ significant others, why even have that label if you're not going to be faithful to that one person on the more intimate levels? I am not saying I have a problem with polyamory - I don't, although I know I personally am not going to participate in it. Overall, I am generally good with the idea that whatever works for a person should be acceptable, regardless of whether I adhere to that system or not. It's their life. However, if someone wishes to see more than one person, they should say that outright, even if it means dealing with someone getting hurt or angry.

I think it is the fact that I found out well after the fact, that my ex didn't tell me he was seeing other people, his selfishness that hurt most. I made that option available, and was even willing to try being poly when we were together because I thought he wanted to, and I didn't want to lose him (see? I get it to some extent I guess~;P). He said I was all he needed, and although he looked elsewhere, I was the only one he wanted to be with.

[roses-rejoice.livejournal.com]

I think you make a good point about communication. Mono/poly is really hard because for many mono people, sexual fidelity really IS the ultimate expression of commitment. I find that kind of odd because that's not how i think at all, but I have accepted that that is the case. I also think "poly" means different things for different people, which is why I am very careful about using that word. There are polys whose main driver seems to be sexual variety, others who are bi and want/need partners of each sex, and others who just need an emotional commitment to more than one person and don't see anything amiss with it. Unfortunately, many of the people who run around terming themselves "polys" are kind of in it for the sex/swinging aspect, so that leaves polys who are much more limited in their activities or desires in kind of a bad light. I am the LAST person who would be swinging anywhere, I didn't even lose my virginity until I was 21 (and it was with the person I loved and thought I had a lifetime commitment to at the time). And, like I said, even if you're "good" and don't have sex with anyone but your primary partner, oftentimes the partner just assumes you are having sex or else is so jealous of your emotional commitment to someone else, or your spending some time with them, it doesn't matter whether you're having sex or eating a peanut butter sammich with them - you get yelled at just as much, and maybe suspected of doing things when you're not.

I understand that getting very attached to someone often leads down the path to sex, but there is also such a thing as control, and part of loving someone is knowing when to practice it. I also think a big part of loving someone is finding ways to care about them, and fun things to do, that don't involve sex or preliminaries. Maybe I think this way because like I said, I seem to have a lot less sex drive than other people. I enjoy it when I do have it but it's not a main part of my everyday existence and I don't terribly miss having it with someone else when it's not going on for one reason or another (usually because I and/or partner are very busy with other stuff). And I also feel like too many people saw me as primarily a sex object when I was younger, which is not something I want to be. I want to be loved for myself, not for my ability to relieve someone's sexual urge. Too many people just didn't want to be friends anymore when there was no possibility of sex.

anyway, I have enjoyed this discussion with you, thanks :)

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

I understand that getting very attached to someone often leads down the path to sex, but there is also such a thing as control, and part of loving someone is knowing when to practice it. I also think a big part of loving someone is finding ways to care about them, and fun things to do, that don't involve sex or preliminaries.

Oh, I hope I haven't given off the impression that this is all I base a relationship off of. By no means do I do that, especially nowadays! If I did, I'd be in certain withdrawal LOL

I think it just became the centerpiece in the conversation because of the nature of the main article. I, too, have enjoyed this discussion with you, and hope I didn't give up TMI...I have really appreciated your perspectives and ideas! Thank you!!!

If she'd written to "Savage Love"...

[jjjiii]

That "mom" (for lack of a better word) sure is a dumbass. But for the cheating and the age of the daughter, you'd almost want to give the scummy boyfriend a thumbs up for making the mother-daughter combo, a feat more difficult than the 7-10 split. But it's so much better when it's voluntary and a threesome. Sigh. So close...

Re: If she'd written to "Savage Love"...

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

you know, you're lucky I adore you so much or I'd thwak you over the head for this comment!~;)

Re: If she'd written to "Savage Love"...

[jjjiii]

And I'd deserve it, too.