snagged from jjjiii re: stretching too far to find God

[thedarksiren2]

Woman survives throat impalement

Initially, he was attracted to the title, but when he got to the article, which really isn't horribly interesting overall, there was a bit about angellic co-pilots, and thus, jjjiii went off:

The woman survived a horrifying impalement, therefore God must have been protecting her (and therefore must also exist).

Glory be and hallellujah!

Wait a minute. Just back up. Is this really proof that God exists?

Well, where the hell was God 10 seconds before the accident happened? Asleep? Why would God impale one of his devout followers in a fence post, or allow such a thing to happen? A passenger in the back seat was
not injured. What was their religious affiliation?

You ask these sorts of questions, and the true sheep-of-the-flock will say that we can't question God, and He does things for mysterious reasons, perhaps this was all some kind of test, or that by providing a crisis it gives us the opportunity to come together as brothers and in mercy to the stricken, blah blah blah. That's nice, God. Thanks for poking fence poles through people's heads just so we might recognize our humanity in each other.We could use more reminders like that. Now of course this woman will have a mission after she recovers, and with her second lease on life she'll become some kind of activist and religious icon. Maybe in a few hundred years we'll start seeing pole-through-mouth impalement iconography next to the crucifixes that we currently have in circulation.


I will admit here that my main reason for re-posting this from jjjiii is because the rant made me laugh. His commentary on the "pole-through-mouth iconography" was too damn entertaining not to share with the world.

However, I have to agree with a good portion of his post, and find myself wondering why people have to make up reasons for everything that happens. I told him that I am the first to admit that I like having clarity and reason in my life -- one of the best ways to drive me out of my fucking mind is to withhold information/ truth from me, particularly when such withholding is impacting my life. However, this is not the same as attributing luck or situations to an invisible being.

I am not saying I do not believe in God or deities, angels, faeries, ghosts, etc. I have quite a few beliefs intermixed amongst themselves, and simply call my "religion" (because, you know, we all have to have a religion to be validated in today's society, right?~;P ) Dawndom. Sounds narcissistic and idolistic, but really, it's not. I don't think of myself as god-like, although some might argue otherwise ~;D Minions are fun, ya know.

Seriously, I don't think anyone is wrong or right in believing what they choose to believe. They just do, and for whatever reason. It always serves a purpose, and hey, if that's your way of finding purpose in life, more power to you. I can think of worse ways to go about it. The thing is, people who are devoutly anything seem to be the worst about pushing their beliefs upon others. This I find offensive and annoying. I mean, what makes pushing religion any better than pushing drugs or gambling or *fill-in-the-blank* ? Seriously...it takes over your mind (mental addiction), many times includes imbibing of alcohol, gives you euphoria if you're really lost in it, etc.

Maybe this strain of thought is a bit harsh/ extreme, but well...is it?

Curious about people's thoughts. I didn't post this to piss anyone off or anything, I am just curious what goes on in the minds of babes. ~;)

Comments

[tammy-216.livejournal.com]

id tell you my individual thoughts about it, but why? they are the same as yours on this one.

everything and everybody does have to have some sort of validation....

that pretty much sums it all up...

sorry, im just kinda in awe that i really cant find anything to debate about with this post... (wierd)

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Just 'cause I post something in hopes of hearing views doesn't mean I necessarily want debates. It's all good if they come up, but not a requirement of commenting, ya know? ~;)

Thanks for your thoughts.

[mediaexmachina.livejournal.com]

agreed.

[oqidaun.livejournal.com]

Sounds narcissistic and idolistic --what religion isn't ;P

the present political/cultural comment in this country has really pushed me back into questioning my religious affiliations. i try not to, but when i hear some one identify themselves as a "christian" i immediately develop a negative reaction. why do they always have to identify themselves, why don't they let their actions and behaviors reveal their identities--doesn't the bible say something like that? i don't know what i am any more. the only gods i see being pushed are the gods of hate, intolerance and hypocrisy. i'm a "practicing catholic" which i don't know what that means as i find myself more and more at odds with the church over social issues. i suppose i never really was a good catholic, too liberal too independent. i go through the motions, but the meaning is fleeting. i was born catholic, became an atheist and then found myself reconnecting with the spiritualism that the church offered. i used to do a lot of eucharistic mediation, yet never got with the social issue program. i'm pro-choice, a feminist and a socialist. the spiritualism is beautiful and meaningful, but everything else just pushes me back towards atheism--not because i don't believe in a supreme being, but as a reaction to the god that so many people in this country believe exists. this is a rambling and disjointed kind of response so i'll conclude with a contrite little quote from marilyn manson's song 'disposable teens' : "i never really hated the one true god, but the god of the people who hated." that says a lot about the feeling inside of me with regard to this subject. i think if jesus showed up today a lot of the people who claim to be "christians" wouldn't even notice, because they never stop to look the homeless, i doubt that jesus would make any special appearances in their megachurches replete with mcdonald's and indoor swimming pools, i imagine he wouldn't be driving an suv with a "god bless america" sticker on the back.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

not rambling and disjointed at all, my friend. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[ras-sinister.livejournal.com]

I'm curious as to how you came to think there was no god, then came to think that there was one again and even went so far as to go back to Catholicism, whose idea of God and his will is so specific and culturally biased as to be ridiculous. Yeah... All the little things in the universe were decided by an all-knowing, all-powerful being who creates people knowing he will send them to hell, but "loves" them anyway, and came to earth in the form of a poor carpenter who ate and shat and had b.o. just like the rest of us, and allowed himself to be killed so he could come back later and, today, can actually be physically eaten in the form of a cracker. That's a lot to swallow.

I don't mean to be offensive, I'm just baffled by and curious about the development of people's religious ideas.

[roses-rejoice.livejournal.com]

i think there's a difference between acknowledging that one has a religious belief, and actively trying to force it on other people. i also agree with the previous poster that the current political climate is leaving a bad taste in many people's mouths when it comes to ANY mention of religion so it's getting to be that you can't mention god or jesus at all without being questioned, and that kinda bugs me.

religion is one of those hot-button topics that everybody has an opinion about but because it's a subject that has personal meaning to me, it's not something i share readily with other people unless i trust them a lot. this also allows me to avoid a lot of debates with people who have a mad-on about religious people, or nonreligious people, or the whole shebang.

re the newspaper article in particular, i personally don't see the point of getting all het up about that newspaper article, unless someone was looking for a reason to get het up about religion anyway. i mean, i read about 1,000 things i think are stupid or don't agree with in the paper everyday, and obviously the journalist picked that comment to quote because he or she knew it would get attention both of the positive and negative variety. therefore, the journalist accomplished his or her aim. *shrug*

[jjjiii]

I have to admit, I sometimes come up with some good off the cuff remarks.

[ras-sinister.livejournal.com]

Nobody is right or wrong to believe what they choose?

First of all, I don't think belief is a choice. People naturally believe things that make sense to them and go along with a significant part of the things they observe in the world. Could you choose to believe - I mean believe as much as you believe the sun rises in the east - that the galaxy is actually ruled by a cabal of purple men who hold secret meetings in the drain of your kitchen sink? Then how could you have chosen to believe the things you do?

The only choice in belief comes from reinforcement and challenge choices. People choose to ignore or downplay things that challenge their core beliefs and take things that corroborate their stories much more seriously.

Would you say I was right or wrong if I believed in the purple man cabal in your kitchen sink? I mean really believe, like the Pope believes in Jesus and Mary. You'd probably call me nuts or at least be concerned that I had come down with some kind of psychosis. When it comes to assertions of fact, one can be right or wrong about their beliefs. If I assert it's a fact that there are purple men in your sink, then you can point to the sink and say there's nothing there, and I can say that you can't prove they don't exist. But if they really aren't there, then I am in fact wrong.

Same thing goes for belief in God, devils, angels, fairies, and spirits. Either they exist in fact or they don't, and those who believe or disbelieve are right or wrong on the issue.

Given that there's about as much undeniable evidence of more common fantasies as there is for the purple men, I'll say that the very idea of a god is a little on the delusional side. And then comes the selective reinforcement, people attributing things to fairies and gods and juju when things go one way and not giving them a thought in other cases. Thinking we're getting to the point, thinking that there's a meaning to it all. We're hardwired to expect a point to things, it seems, so of course we keep trying to ascribe meaning to the universe, but really, there couldn't possibly be one given what is known about it.