GAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedarksiren2]

OMFG...so, I had written this very thoughtful, long-as-shite post regarding my recent research on soy products when POOF! LJ ate it.

GJGUYYTO*&^*&JYGUKYHGBDKWHBHFYBHHYFDYTFSDYTR%$^&#%$#$@$@!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH.

So, umm, if you like soy products, go HERE and read up on some of how it can affect you. I went simply looking into how it affects the organs surrounding and includingthe thyroid -- all part of the larynx, thus possibly affecting the vocal folds. (See? I'm actually learning something down here, Ma!~;P) and came upon all kinds of rather scary things, some of which might be the answer to some recent health issues with which I've been dealing.

So yeah...go read the article, follow links to sites including the USDA website, and get your education on. Seriously, it affects everything from the thyroid to causing infertility in both men and women.

I swear, the world is filled with everything we want, but it's all gonna kill us, one way or another. I think with soy, it's another version of Mama Nature taking back what we've been selfish with.

Then again, maybe I'm just reading into all this too deeply. *shrugs*

All thoughts/ opinions/ other knowledge very welcome and appreciated!

Comments

[jjjiii]

Man, I thought soy was supposed to be really good for you!

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Read through some of the other comments (http://www.livejournal.com/users/thedarksiren/697078.html) for some good info/ thoughts/ opinions regarding this. A lot of people gave me good info and opinions.

[erinnicole93.livejournal.com]

I refuse! I will eat Miso!

is that why all the japanese karaoke singers sound kinda off key?

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

HA HA!

I would have to say no, considering that a good number of Americans are also off-key...that is, unless grease is comparable.~;P

[dv8productions.livejournal.com]

Considering that too much water will cause renal failure and death, I try not to put too much consideration into any nutritional studies, no matter how reliable the source. One can spend an entire lifetime counting calories and carbs and measuring water and charting isoflavone, or one can simply moderate everything, try to come to an approximate balance, and spend some time living instead of counting. I'll have some life with my food, thanks. :)

[subliminal-self.livejournal.com]

Yea, I gotta agree. Moderation is key. Truly, at some time or another, *everything* is bad for you ;)I mean, I can't count the times I've heard "eggs are bad", "eggs are good", "eggs..bad", "eggs..good" and on...I still enjoy a good omelette every one in awhile. And like Lake Erie Perch. Yea, there's soo much crap in the lake, but (even though Genevieve makes fun of me for it), I grew up eating perch like a madman, as did most of us who live around here and I've had 0 health affects.
Now who wants a tofu-steak? ;)

[dv8productions.livejournal.com]

Sure, pass that tofu this way! :)

To add to the conversation here: I've taken up a new method recently in an attempt to moderate my food intake which has been working quite well... Every time I sit down with a meal, I make a fist before I eat, and compare the size of my fist with the size of my meal. It helps me to remember that's how big my stomach is supposed to be, and anything larger than that is too much. Sure, I eat six times a day this way, but it also helps me remember to eat a better variety of foods!

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Oh, it wasn't so much about counting calories/ dieting as it was I simply drank the milk to restore some of the protien I lack in my diet due to not eating very much meat these days. Most of the meat in the dining halls is heavily salted/ processed, so I tend toward the salads and soups instead.

I try not to think too much about this kind of thing as well, although I keep some of it in the back of my mind. Thing is, I've been having some health issues as of late which are, without saying too much, of a good bit of concern right now. I didn't even think about the possibility that my diet may have affected my body in these ways, but after reading the studies above, I have to wonder if there isn't a correlation, honestly.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts! Always appreciated!

[lucretia1023.livejournal.com]

sigh... I was just getting used to the lovely springy texture of cubed tofu. Damn.

[dv8productions.livejournal.com]

Another old-school goth? In Cleveland? Where do you hide that we've never met?

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't toss it out just yet! Read through some of the other comments (http://www.livejournal.com/users/thedarksiren/697078.html) people left me...very informative and thoughtful!

And hello, btw!~8)
Nice to meet you!

[symbioid.livejournal.com]

when i was trying to be a vegetarian, my mom would argue with me that "soy protein is bad for males" (it just seems like something John Stossel might have said)... I didn't put much credence in it, but have seen some studies that apparently indicate it.

as [Bad username or site: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dv8productions/ @ livejournal.com] says: moderation is key.

I have a hard time believing a lot of these advocacy sites.

the one question i have is "if soy is so bad, the japanese must be completely fucked up!" do they do research by race? if not, how do they explain that japanese people sure aren't fat or seem to have any seeming thyroid issues (AFAIK, IANAE (I am not an endocrinologist)) :)

i take it with a big grain of salt (ok, sodium's bad for ya too... *sigh*)

also, yes... enjoy food, don't fucking count calories all the time.

[ras-sinister.livejournal.com]

You would die without sodium - you need more sodium than calcium.

Most research on the positive effects of soy studied the effects of traditional soyfoods like tofu, tempeh, miso, soymilk (the natural kind), and something called natto, which I've heard of from few places but never seen.

Basically, in all those products, the soybeans have been soaked and/or fermented. This causes the chemicals in the beans to change into more beneficial forms.

But people who load up on soy protein isolate certainly aren't doing themselves any good. It might be harmful, but the research to date doesn't persuade me. Still, I've decided to avoid denatured soy products like protein isolates.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

As I told dv8productions, it wasn't so much about counting calories...not at all, honestly. It was concerns for both my voice - I am always leary of things affecting it, considering it will be my source of income someday - as well as some other recent health problems which may actually correlate with my adding soy milk to my diet the past couple months. It may not have anything to do with it, but until I find out, I am going to be cautious, particularly since I won't have health insurance over the summer.

I am allergic to some oddball things, such as cloves and aspartame, so being highly sensitive to soy isn't that off the wall. I am taking it with a grain of salt (no worries...not a big salt-eater anyway~;), but also keeping my wits about me, ya know?

BUT, believe me...I enjoy food just fine!~;)

Thanks for your thoughts!

[mediaexmachina.livejournal.com]

There are actually far more nutritionists/dietiticians/etc that feel that soy is a very healthy thing than that would say it is unhealthy. As far as reproductive health, there are actually medical studies that have found it is preventative against breast and ovarian cancers, and it helps with menopausal symptoms.

You can't get too worked up about "this study says I can't eat my favorite food anymore" because most of the time when they find negative things it's because they fed some animal massive amounts and then tested it. For example, I was worried about the fact that I drink a can of diet soda every day, so I asked my nutritionist about it and she said basically that a 150 pound woman can consume 300 packets of equal per day without any longterm effects (based on an FDA study over the past 20 years).

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

It's not something I favor tremendously, but I have begun enjoying a glass of chocolate soy milk a couple times a week the past few months, the only major change in my diet in that time, and I've been having some health issues which, if some of the studies in this article as well as the USDA page are true, may be related to that change.

Either way, I am not too concerned just yet. I was just fascinated by it all, and wanted some thoughts from people because it seemed to contradict all the hype about soy as of the past several years.

Thanks for you thoughts!

[tofu666.livejournal.com]

OK, you know I have to say something ;)

the key quotes are:

"I see substantial risks from taking soy supplements or eating huge amounts of soyfoods for their putative disease preventive value. There is definitely potential for interaction with the thyroid."

and

"people with hypothyroidism should avoid soy products"

both are pretty narrow definitions -- and as mentioned above -- too much of anything is bad for you, even soy products. ;)

Having said that - my wife and I have been veg/vegan for 20 years now -- we probably consume more soy products annually than all of North and South Dakota. We've never had a problem with our thyroids. YMMV.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Appreciate the perspective! Thanks!

[nemesisn72.livejournal.com]

I've had to drink soy milk all my life, due to an allergy to dairy milk/products. When I was an infant, it was the only thing I wouldn't just immediately vomit up. I even rejected breast milk. As I've gotten older, it's gotten less severe, but I still have allergy-related reactions (like breaking out, clogged sinuses, etc). I've never had any thyroid problems (and yes, I've been checked), and considering that's all I ingested as an infant, I'm guessing the amount has to be pretty substantial for much longer then when I was on it.

*shrug*

Either way, too much of any one thing can hurt you usually.

Although, I may give rice milk a shot, just for the hell of it.

<3

[ras-sinister.livejournal.com]

Milk allergies are becoming more and more common. Of course, so are soy allergies.

The Weston A. Price Foundation thinks you should have starved to death. They want to have soy formula outlawed. They say it's like giving your baby a quadruple dose of birth control pills and various carcinogens and what-not. And depriving the baby of vital, essential nutrients. While formula is nutritionally inferior to breastmilk, it's better than no nourishment at all, and the fact that you have survived to this point because it was the only option shows that it shouldn't be banned.

But they also talk about fertility as an issue with soy. I don't know if you ever plan on procreating, or if you already have, or not. But if you did have children, it would be another blow against their lunacy.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Someone over the weekend mentioned almond milk as another alternative, and said it's about as expensive as rice milk, but damn tasty!

Glad to have a perspective from someone who's had so much experience with soy throughout their life! Thanks so much!

[ras-sinister.livejournal.com]

Hey. I hope you saw the other comments I left in this thread. It's something I'm interested in, as well.

I think that a lot of the anti-soy hysteria is overblown, but they did get a few things right on the side, which does nothing to solidify their position in my mind. Still, there is as much agenda-driven research condemning soy as there is promoting it. Industry on one side, fanatical reactionaries on the other. I don't trust either side, to be honest.

But if you haven't checked these sites out, they are both interesting.

This one's written by a vegan activist and author. I've read three of his books, and while I find him to be a little kooky at times, he raises some good points: http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

And on the other side, a radical anti-soy organization that also says it's impossible to be healthy without eating butter or lard regularly: www.westonaprice.org

They also seem to think they're the only people who care about organic agriculture and that vegetarians are opposed to it.

[thedarksiren.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much!